Category Archives: Parenting

Lose the Fish!

Engaging the Bible

If you are a proponent of prayer in school, but never pray at home or with your children, don’t talk to me. If you believe the bible should be taught in school, but never read the bible at home, don’t talk to me. If you think the bible should be the guiding principles in our country, but you never apply timeless biblical principles to your own life, or that of your children’s’ lives, don’t talk to me. You have heard it said, “some talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk.” This directly applies here. If you have a bumper sticker that says “Abortion kills! What part of kill don’t you understand?” your ability to be a loving and caring Christ-like example to an unwed pregnant girl, could be in question. If you have a Christian fish on your car, and then speed through a parking lot while honking wildly at the elderly lady trying to park her vehicle, lose the fish! We live in a culture that easily disconnects their actions and words from what they proclaim to believe! It’s easy for all of us to talk more than we listen. Not only is this true of us individually, but it is also true of our political representation. Unfortunately, we are very keen on pointing out this shortcoming when it comes to our elected officials, but much less likely to see the truth of it in our own lives. Finally, it is especially sad and misleading when Christians choose to talk a talk that they just don’t walk. So back to the beginning of this messy blog. Issues like prayer in school, teaching from the bible, and the public display of the Ten commandments are all issues that in the last 20 or so years have often been at the forefront of town hall meetings, school board agendas and congressional lobbying. Many well-meaning and well-intentioned Christians have carried the torch on such issues as getting prayer back in school, creationism taught in the science curriculum and often feel insulted when they feel like Christianity is not accommodated either in politics or policy, or in the public venue in a way they think it should be. We have an organization/club at our junior high called “Cats for Christ.” This group conducts seemingly wonderful events like public “prayer at the flag pole.” My girls (the two who attended this school) never chose to participate in this club in spite of their own Christian faith. We were discussing it one day, and they were very frank in saying, “the kids we know who are members of this group,” commonly drop expletives in the hallways, treat others rudely, and have a general display of behavior that is absolutely contrary to the principles outlined in “Cats for Christ!” Of course no one is perfect, but consistent patterns of negative behavior with no appearance of regret or apology-let’s face it-probably isn’t who you want representing an organization that is supposed to point people to Christ, NOT confuse his message and mar his image.

But maybe a fresh look at real statistics of Christian adults and parents, might shed some light on why the actions of Christian junior high students in this particular situation IS what it is. One “Bible Engagement” study of 2900 Protestant Christians, revealed that 90% of those polled, “desire to please God,” but only a mere 19% of them actually admit to reading the bible daily or with any regularity whatsoever. (Christianity Today 9/7/2012). Another similar study concluded that of over 2 billion confessing Christians in this world, less than 30% will ever read through the entire bible. “The fact is over 82% of Christian Americans only read their bibles while in church on Sunday.” (Ponce Foundation 2013) And since in my own church on Sundays, I virtually never see a single parishioner carrying a bible, I am assuming that latter statement means they are either reading the bible from their electronic device in church (great resource) or (what is more likely), they are reading the scriptures on the projection screen referenced there by the pastor.
Another poll of Christians (evangelical and otherwise) reports on average, annual giving of only 2.4% of their income to the church! Some quick and simple math of my own family finances, revealed that just our monthly cable/internet and telephone/cell phones total about 2% of our income. Throw in a few coffee shop splurges, discretionary spending on entertainment and extra curricular activities for our kids, and the percentage of our disposable income DISPOSED on something other than charitable giving, becomes much much higher than the 2.4% donated on average by Christians. Lest you think this is only about church tithing, average charitable contribution By Americans (church giving or otherwise) according to their Federal tax returns filed in 2011 was about 2.1 percent of income. In actual dollars, the average was well less than $1200 per household, a number far far below what the majority of us spend on gourmet coffees, fast food, cable tv and data plans every year! (Urban Institute National Center for Charitable Statistics, November 2013) And what about serving others, sharing Jesus through selfless acts of love and benevolence? The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported in 2013 just a mere 1/4 (25.2%) of ALL Americans (Christians and others) volunteer their time throughout the year in some capacity. While it’s true that a large number of that 25% are “church goers,” it follows that well less than 1/4 of All Americans serving as volunteers in any capacity are actually Christians.
And those are individual statistics. Perhaps you are relying on your government’s efforts to spread the love of Jesus, particularly those of us who live in politically conservative states touting family values as paramount. In Texas, in spite of an often prolific political platform of conservative Christian principles, they still have the 3rd largest teen pregnancy rate in the nation. (Huffington Post March 19, 2014). Recently (2013-2014), Texas lawmakers have attempted to legislate an enormous decrease in the number of abortion clinics in the state. However, the number of state supported pregnancy crisis centers (many of them faith-based) supposedly offering girls and women alternatives to abortion have been riddled with problems. An independent study cited multiple violations ranging from safety to breaching of client privacy, while at the same time, little attention was allocated to the medical or emotional needs of their clients. Subcontractors at these centers often work in “counselor” positions that require no special training or certification. (ThinkProgress.org 2011) In my own beloved Sooner state of Oklahoma, a marriage initiative launched by a very conservative state government to combat divorce and strengthen families in Oklahoma, has, by all perceivable accounts, been an epic fail. After 14 years and 70 million dollars, divorce increased to 13.5% in 2012 up from 11.6% in the year 2000. There is a state contracted company who made a LOT of money from this initiative. However, Oklahoma still has the 3rd highest divorce rate in the country (Oklahoma Watch November 2013) And that-in spite of its geographical position, squarely centered in the middle of the traditional American bible belt!

What’s the answer? The answer has always been the same. It has never changed. Jesus! But how we message that to others, could prove to be either helpful or hateful! Bill Hybels said “The local church is the hope of the world!” I believe that could be your Protestant church, Parrish, synagogue, and most certainly your home. The church is not a building. The English word “church” comes from the Greek word kyriakos, “belonging to the Lord” (kyrios). Its defined as “an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.”

Remember the study earlier discussed on “Bible Engagement?” Lifeway Christian Resources concluded that such an engagement with the bible was correlated to “Having been discipled or mentored one-on-one by a more spiritually mature Christian.” It’s authentic relationships and daily spiritual disciplines that are going to compel us to serve others, give our money to the needy, love the unlovely, and give hope to the hopeless. This kind of religion can not be legislated. It cannot be canned into a program or sustained by your school board or town hall. And it cannot, by any measure, be mercilessly hammered into the heads and hearts of the opposition by a Christian who has not applied biblical principles and teaching in his/her own life. LifeWay president Ed Stetzer says “Bible engagement points people toward maturity and maturing Christians have practices that correspond to Bible reading. Almost all churchgoers want to honor God, but more than a third indicate obedience is not something they have done when it is costly to them.”

I know the way I started this blog, seemed harsh, but I am inclined to end it the same way. If you have fish on your car or a cross on your wall, or a bumper sticker that confuses Christianity with condemnation, and yet you don’t feel the need to seek God with your family inside the very confounds of your home or in serving your own community, don’t talk to me about your right to pray at the football game on Friday night. At some point, we have divorced ourselves from common sense Christianity, from grace and mercy- and instead have aligned ourselves with politics inside and outside of the church. I don’t really care if you pray out loud at school. But I do care if you pray at home with your family. It’s time as Christians we lead the charge in applying the scripture to our own life. Get a mentor. Be a mentor. Start practicing in your own daily life, in your marriage, and with your children what you claim you believe.

Marriage does NOT complete you!

wedding_rings_2

I still have the fondest memories of our wedding ceremony. I had memorized the vows. Paul had not. Our “special song,” went on a little too long so I decided to straighten his collar while we waited. We had a saber guard, and as we strolled under the swords during our exit, our friend Mike, (I thought), using his saber, gave the bride the traditional rear end swat with just a little bit to much exuberance! Really Mike, I thought it was supposed to be a light pat! I was a young 28 year old, Paul was a mere 27. (Yes, he is 6 months younger than me-a fact he loves repeating!) It’s true I kissed a lot of frogs before finding my prince. But that experience, though painful, helped bring me to a place of awareness about my relationship with men, and the importance I placed on those relationships in my life. In other words, there was a time when having a romantic-love like-relationship mattered to me more than it should have. It mattered at a time when truly, it shouldn’t have mattered at all! I was making decisions that were emotionally charged from an emotionally bankrupt heart, resulting in reckless judgement and decisions. I had not the advantage of a father or a mother to navigate me through adolescence with the unconditional love necessary for successful adulthood. Nor was there anyone standing in that emotional gap. I erroneously thought that love, and ultimately marriage, would complete me.

Now there are all kinds of reasons why people believe this marital myth. Though sad, but hardly rare, my personal experience is not meant to imply that only orphans or children of single parents harbor this misunderstanding. Young people from two parent homes with successful careers, steady incomes, and strong family values can also adopt this as truth.
But why?
Clearly and absolutely, parents need to demonstrate and model vibrant, healthy marriages for their kids. It is undoubtedly our responsibility to model marriages that deal with conflict effectively while enjoying intimacy and passion in matrimony! However, more importantly, parents are chiefly responsible for teaching our kids how important they are in the eyes of their Creator-that they live for an audience of One! The rickety part of that approach is that it does not guarantee marriage or grandchildren. Paul the Apostle’s words resound in my ear when he said in 1 Corinthians 7, “It is better to choose to be single, but if you must marry, better to do so than burn with passion.” As parents, our perceived “need” or desire for grandchildren, and/or our sincere and loving concern for our child’s future happiness and security, and/or our traditional beliefs that with marriage your salvation is sealed or somehow actualized, can often interfere with child rearing as we help navigate our kids through their teens and twenties. Any of these ideas, when over the years are peppered or infused into conversations, expectations, discipline, and other life decisions, send a message to our kids that without marriage (and/or children) well-you’re simply incomplete, fallen short of God’s glory, or out of His will. This couldn’t be further from the truth. And therein lies the myth, you must be married to be complete.

I hardly think Paul the Apostle was out of God’s will or not content (See Philippians 4:11-13). I love imagining an interview with Paul the Apostle on the evening news. It might go something like this:
Journalist: Paul how do you possibly get along in life and in your ministry single? No wife?
Paul: (Brow furrowed with quizzical a look) Don’t be wishing you were someplace else or with someone else. Where you are right now is God’s place for you. Live and obey and love and believe right there. God, not your marital status, defines your life. Don’t think I’m being harder on you than on the others. I give this same counsel in all the churches. (1 Corinthians 7:16-17 The Message)
Journalist: But since you are not married, don’t you feel a little incomplete spiritually?
Paul: Sometimes I wish everyone were single like me—a simpler life in many ways! But celibacy is not for everyone any more than marriage is. God gives the gift of the single life to some, the gift of the married life to others. (1 Corinthians 7:7)
Journalist: How are you qualified to lead others or to hand out marital advice?
Paul: In my judgement she is happier if she stays as she is (single), and I think I too have the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 7:40 NIV)
Journalist: (Sheepishly and sputtering) Well….I uh…wasn’t trying to imply that you don’t have the spirit of God Paul….

If you are married, read and reread 1 Corinthians chapter 7. There are terrific and timeless spiritual lessons for making and keeping your marriage strong and passionate.
If you are single, read and reread 1 Corinthians chapter 7. There are terrific and timeless spiritual lessons for making and keeping your life strong and passionate.

Marriage is a beautiful thing, so much so that in Ephesians chapter 5, our beloved Apostle Paul compared the relationship between Christ and the church to the love relationship between a man and his wife. And God may purpose this for you at 25, 40 or 60 years of age. Or He may have a better and even greater purpose for your life. The bottom line is (as parents especially) we don’t want to and should not pressure our kids into marriage, or communicate the message that somehow marriage saves them, completes them or makes them worthy. Only God can do this. And if we do, shame on us for derailing God’s efforts in their lives by perpetuating such a myth.

Just as we can never expect another person to “make us happy,” so we cannot expect the marriage union to complete us and make us finally “worthy,” of God’s mercy. Nor should we expect it to gain the love and approval from our family and friends that we so covet.

Finally, after he finishes admonishing married men and women for sometimes being so distracted by their marriage that they neglect God, Paul says to BOTH married and single folks, “I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 7:35 NIV) In other words, Paul knows the equation for contentment and happiness, and it is the latter, undivided attention to one’s Creator. Use your marriage for God’s glory. Use your single status for this also. And so be happy and content, full of life and compassion and passion. Full of hope and joy and love overflowing.

And isn’t that what’s most important? You want happiness? Completion? Fulfillment? And what about your children? Do you want these latter things for them more than anything else?
Then make sure you prioritize this teaching from Paul the Apostle in their life. Tell them they are precious in the eye of their Creator just as they are! I have three daughters of my own. The last thing I want is for those precious girls to believe that a boy (or a man) is the magic bullet for their happiness and worthiness. Give the job of finding their mate back to God.
Allow Him to mold them, unmarried or otherwise, the way He wants them to be-on the path He wants them to take. That job was never ours to begin with.

Sex before marriage? Reclaiming choices for our kids

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We live in a world that is having a one way conversation with our kids. That one way conversation is this: “You will have sex before marriage. That’s ‘normal,’ a given, the only question that remains then, is how soon will it happen?” Read the headlines of popular magazines while waiting to check out at the grocery store. Watch a Miley Cyrus music video. Watch just about any music video. Follow Lady Gaga on twitter. Read an article in Seventeen magazine. Read an article in Cosmopolitan magazine. Watch a movie. I challenge you to find one piece of media-TV show, magazine article, movie, any media vehicle, any tv ad spot, anywhere, anytime-I challenge you to show me one of these sources that simply says “Um….You have a choice. You can say no to sex….” Show me one. Okay, maybe the abstinence message built into my girls’ 6th grade health class curriculum. Or maybe the various “Let’s Wait..” programs found for teens in faith based religions. But from a media source? Show me one. We have taken a little bit of an unorthodox approach with our kids with regard to this subject matter. We actually told them, “Yes, you can have sex before marriage, undoubtedly, that is true. But, (and here’s the clincher), you don’t have to! And then we have followed that up with a healthy dose of unconditional love, boundaries, natural consequences for their behaviors, right and wrong, and a great big open door to come tell us ANYTHING. We fully understand that this ugly, self centered, self gratifying world that we live in-the one who craves immediate gratification in all of life, and sells that as a total possibility in advertising-is sending ONE message to our girls. “You will have sex before marriage. The only question is when.” Like I said, it’s a one way conversation. We realized quickly that we needed to make it a two way conversation. We did a simple thing, guided by our faith and convictions, and as importantly, a deep seated love for our precious daughters, we did the only sensible thing we could do. We gave them back the choice. We told them, “Oh and by the way, you can say no!” This is something that everyone can sink their teeth into, regardless of your faith, your belief systems, or your political position. Giving our kids a choice is certainly something we can all agree on. So why then do most parents conform to this cultural message about their kids, effectively taking that choice away? Because, sex in our culture is an easy sell. The message is embedded in a self gratifying culture that we live and function in every day, and therefore, in the very fabric of our lives. Sometimes it’s easier to go along with the “Jones,” than it is to have such serious conversations with our kids beyond the ones that just cover the day’s logistics. For instance, “I’ll pick you up from school at 3:00. Don’t forget you have a dentist appt. at 3:30 and soccer at 5:00.” But if we all know and agree that having sex too early, too young, and outside of a loving, intimate marriage relationship, is emotionally damaging to our kids, then why aren’t more of us making this a two way discussion? Why are we sticking our heads in the sand, and allowing total strangers to have so much power and influence over our children’s decision about their sexuality, their worth, and their potential to succeed in life? It may be because no one ever talked to us about this important subject matter. As children, many of us were thrown to the wolves when it came to learning about sex and sexuality. But that doesn’t mean we should perpetuate that cycle. It could be because we are too dang busy. Who has time for “special weekends,” family dinners at the kitchen table, board games, family vacations? It could be that we have allowed our children to watch Rated R movies and TV since, well, I don’t know when, and the mindset has already been set in stone. Maybe it’s a combination of all the above, and consequently, you don’t feel adequate in having this loving and honoring conversation with your son or daughter. Don’t believe that lie. No one loves your child like you do, with the one exception of their Creator. And God is greater than all of our mistakes. So wade into the waters with your babies. Be a spiritual leader in their life. Be their champion. For God’s sake, don’t give that job away.

So, say we don’t buy into the lie that almost everyone will have sex prior to marriage. What does that mean and what does it not mean?

1. It doesn’t mean you lie to your kids about your own sexual virtue. If you were not a virgin before you were married, for goodness sakes, tell them the truth when the inevitable can no longer be avoided. You can bet the question is going to come up. Lying to our kids is treacherous ground and makes navigating through life situations in the ensuing years very difficult. There were a lot of things I did as a teenager and a young person that I don’t want my children to do. I mean-think about it. If you are a recovered narcotics addict, would you say, “Well, I did it, so my kids will too!” I hope not! On the contrary, you would be all the wiser about those choices and their consequences. And you can and should share that with your kids at age appropriate times and in the right setting. You will know when it is right.

2. It also doesn’t mean you abdicate the responsibility of sex education for your children. C’mon parents! Put your big girl and big boy pants on, and talk to them. They want to hear it from you. They might not act like it. But if you want your girl to learn about sex and ALL that is involved in her sexuality from “Johnny boy,” the kid in her 9th grade biology class, then don’t tell her anything. “Johnny boy” will most certainly take care of that for you. Just know that if you don’t, sadly someone else will! And the likelihood of that being emotionally devastating for your son or daughter is great.

3. It does mean that if you are the mom, you designate a “special weekend” with your girl, just you and her. If you can, go out of town. If you can’t, do a day trip or have everyone else in the family leave the house for the weekend. Give yourselves time to prepare. Have her write down questions or listen to CD’s about sex and sexuality beforehand. Passport to Purity is a great source (milylife.com/find-help/key-resources/passport2purity#.UmrmwaXn2LE) But there are many! Google! Go out to eat. Shop. Do something fun. Send her the message that she is precious and special to you, that she is special to her Creator. I think 6th or 7th grade is a great time to do this with your girl or boy. It should closely coincide with onset of puberty. I wouldn’t do it much earlier or later than this. Likewise, it means if you are the dad, you do the special weekend trip with your son. Prepare in the same ways moms do with their girls. Tell him how special he is to you and his Creator. You answer his questions and talk to him about your expectations and you also teach him how to treat women, starting with his mom and sisters and then of course other girls and women. Buy a special small gift or piece of jewelry for your son or daughter at the end of the weekend which reminds them how much they are loved and cared for, and that their purity is honorable and healthy.

1 Corinthians 10:23 says “You say, I have the right to do anything, but not everything is beneficial. I have the right to do everything, but not everything is constructive.” 1 Corinthians 6:12 says “Everything is permissible for me, but not everything beneficial. Everything is permissible for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. Verse 19 tells us “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”

I see kids all the time who are disconnected from the people who love them the most. I have also seen unbelievable sexual text messages to my girls from other teens (boys and girls), and unbelievable sexual posts on social networks by tweens and teens. But I never see them lose their social networking privileges, and I see the posts over and over again. Be involved with your teen. They need to know there is no person on earth that loves and cares for them like you. For them to know that, we have to actually spend time with them. Passing them like ships in the night doesn’t give them what they need from us. Having conversations is a good start. And when it comes to their sexuality, love them enough to make this a two way discussion. Reverse this cultural message they get clobbered with every single day. Give them back the choice!

What are we teaching our girls?

We need to let our girls read this. We need to remind our girls that the rights they have as girls-as women are not had by all. We need to teach our girls to be generous and compassionate, not shallow and petty. We need to teach our girls that what they have is secondary to what they give. We need to teach our girls that there is a big world out there, one where pain and suffering go hand in hand with the plight of oppressed and mistreated women. We need to teach our girls to never stop fighting, never quit, never give in, and to always hope!  What example are you laying down on the path in front of your girl as she walks and grows?  We should not be so naive, so apathetic as to read articles such as this one and compartmentalize. “That happens over there. It doesn’t happen here. Therefore, I won’t concern myself.”  Perhpas it behooves us to remember that the US State Department has recently reported that the good “ole” USA is the number one destination of human traffickers.  Human trafficking is a huge problem in this country, and it involves the lives of hundreds of thousands of girls and women.  Maybe that will bring violence against girls a little closer to home for us.  Malala’s story is incredibly sad and should do anything but render us all helpless.  You might ask “well, what can I do?”  If you have girls of your own, start with them.  Teach them what is important in life, and I can tell you that it really isn’t extra curricular activities or weekly allowance or choosing paint colors for the new house.  It is serving others, serving someone besides themselves. it is teaching them that God created them for a purpose, and that purpose involves making life better for those around them.  It is exuding hope, love, and compassion for others. It is teaching them justice. It is teaching them to stand up for themselves while respecting the rights of others. It is teaching them to never stop fighting against the struggle of abused and mistreated girls-girls just like themselves, like Malala.  Never stop fighting for justice. What are you teaching your girl? 


Malala Yousafzai’s Courage »

A vicious Taliban campaign against girls’ education crystallized in the cowardly shooting of a 14-year-old girl who fearlessly promoted going to school.

A lesson in real faith in a beautiful part of the world….

A beautiful lookout
A beautiful lookout

IMG_8460 IMG_8503 IMG_8548Over Christmas break 2011, we traveled to Prague, and then on the way home, through Nuremberg, Germany.  The Nuremberg exhibit was absolutely incredible. Apparently the exhibit just opened (unbeknownst to us when we traveled there) on Nov. 22nd of this year.  The girls were really moved by it.  It is a very lengthy audio guide exhibit. But even so, they remained engaged through the majority of it. Every entry in the audio guide is intriguing. Even Halle and Katie listened far longer than I would have imagined them capable. Plus, there was video on hand also that was used as exhibits in the trial, and I think they knew their limits.  It was sobering and troubling.    I had a great discussion with the girls that night about their impressions of the trials, and unwittingly that led to the history of the church, and that led to us discussing how 75% of Czech republic (according to Helena our tour guide the first day in Prague) is agnostic. She said it is  “a practical matter.”  They have seen the church only as abusive and they want nothing to do with it. (The remaining 25% of the population is split-mostly catholic of course, some Protestant. Typically, those too are not evangelistic in nature. Traditionally in Catholic and Lutheran Protestant churches in Europe, faith is defined by a religion that is very legalistic in nature. It is a routine matter.)  The girls and I talked about how this approach by the church has continued on many levels for 100s of years.  The Catholic church literally ruled with an iron fist for centuries. They were indeed the law and the church in one.  In the 16th century, william Tyndale was the first to translate considerable parts of the Bible into English, for a public, lay leadership. In 1535 he was tried by the church for heresy and was strangled and burned at the stake for taking the word of God to the populace. For centuries Catholic Leadership imprisoned the Jewish population in ghettos all over Europe, exposing them to horrible living conditions, disease and isolation. Now, there’s an argument for separation of church and state. (we shan’t open that can of worms in this post). 


The girls and I discussed how we are guilty of that today-burning people at the stake, not literally but emotionally and spiritually.  How often do we ignore those in need, that kid in your class who is hard to get along with, the next door neighbor who needs a helping hand, someone in our life who needs something we have plenty of?   And then we ended by dissecting 1 Peter 3:15. The first part (“But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord,”)  was the starting point. This is the foundational premise of this verse. Then I reminded the girls of different instances for each of them wherein they were distraught over some sin they had committed or something they had done wrong, and how their joy was restored after they had confessed that sin and asked for forgiveness. It is amazing to me how faithful God is with our experiences. Nothing is wasted on God. The girls had immediate recall to those vivid memories.  And that connected to the middle part of that verse (“be prepared to give everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that you have”)  I reminded them it is never enough for this hard hearted world we live in to tell them only part of the gospel, that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins and gave us eternal life as a gift.  We live in a pretentious and 
Self-centered world who believe they have no need for a Savior.  The key to breaking through that wall lies in our sharing our own personal experience, how that truth has impacted you personally; this is paramount in our message.  We all have a story. We must be prepared to share it. Otherwise, it is the same rhetoric that the unbeliever has been listening to for 100’s of years just as the hammer fell.  Finally, the last part of the verse, (“But do so with gentleness and respect.”) We may set apart Christ in our hearts as Lord, we may  have a story to tell, but try delivering that information to someone in a spirit of anger, abuse, self-righteousness, or disrespect, and she will not hear a word you say.  


The girls were intrigued and engaged.   Yes, it is true, the very next morning I was refereeing a ridiculous disagreement between them, but that night in that moment, God gave us a relevant conversation that everyone was engaged in. And he provided the material effortlessly.  It was something I will never forget.  I hope they don’t either.